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-   -   VAF to MAF conversion on a VW T3 DJ WasserBoxer Vanagon (http://forum.pilotpowersupply.com/showthread.php?t=850)

jcf 25.04.2021 16:29

VAF to MAF conversion on a VW T3 DJ WasserBoxer Vanagon
 
Hello Everybody,
I'm planning the installation of my converter on my T3, but have several questions because I'm unsure about my right understanding of the instructions.

First I understand that the lambda is mandatory for the first setup, but mine is badly placed in my opinion. I put it in the silencer (I soldered it by myself, there is no OEM place for a lambda in this exhaust, my lambda only serves for a dashboard gauge, since my ECU (Dijijet) doesn't take this information into account), so its signal is not very accurate I think (it goes regularly from very lean to very rich, but rarely between both, but maybe it's because of a worn VAF...).
  • Is it possible to use the converter without it or do I absolutely need to wire it to the converter despite the relative inaccuracy of the signal?
  • If it needs to be connected to the converter, is it possible to do it in parallel with my dashboard gauge or do I need to connect the converter alone?

Second, I have questions about the wiring.
  • I have +5V between 1-4 on my VAF and +4,6V between 1-2 (see https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l0ecgjhpf...itled.jpg?dl=0 for a caption of VW workshop manual). Should connection 1 of the car harness go to "JP1.2-Ref. Voltage In" Converter connection?
  • To which harness-debimeter connection should "8-Converter out" be connected?
  • Are the MAF converters connections the same between the siemens model you recommend and the ones from VAG brands? I have this one (for VW Passat) for the moment : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33033...27426c37I4ObrN, or what would be the way to know the right connection to the converter?
  • What is the 5-TPS or VAF in connection for? Is it meant to connect the two devices in serial and compare the two signals?

I have made a draft of the wiring plan which you can find here if needed for verification and comments => https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqn86sofvr...p1%29.pdf?dl=0

Thank you very much in advance for your help and have a nice Sunday ;-)
Jean-Christophe

Pin 28.04.2021 17:13

Hello Jean-Christophe
Цитата:

First I understand that the lambda is mandatory for the first setup, but mine is badly placed in my opinion. I put it in the silencer (I soldered it by myself, there is no OEM place for a lambda in this exhaust, my lambda only serves for a dashboard gauge, since my ECU (Dijijet) doesn't take this information into account), so its signal is not very accurate I think (it goes regularly from very lean to very rich, but rarely between both, but maybe it's because of a worn VAF...).
Yes - the oxygen sensor is a mandatory thing for tune the mixture properly.
Without it you will get a very bad results and very big fuel consumption.
Here ir video on russian about wrong installation of oxygen sensor
https://youtu.be/O1c_cp30GNo
You can try to enable autotranslation of subtitles - hope that about 70-80% will be clear for you. In a short words if the oxygen sensore installed in a bad place - it will give a very slow response and it will be difficult to tune the mixture properly.

Цитата:

Is it possible to use the converter without it or do I absolutely need to wire it to the converter despite the relative inaccuracy of the signal?
You need to connect the oxygen sensor signal to the converter, because inaccurate signal is better then nothing at all.

Цитата:

If it needs to be connected to the converter, is it possible to do it in parallel with my dashboard gauge or do I need to connect the converter alone?
If your oxygen sensor is a narrow band zirconia type then you can connect it in parallel- it will work fine.


Цитата:

Second, I have questions about the wiring.
I have +5V between 1-4 on my VAF and +4,6V between 1-2 (see https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l0ecgjhpf...itled.jpg?dl=0 for a caption of VW workshop manual). Should connection 1 of the car harness go to "JP1.2-Ref. Voltage In" Converter connection?
To which harness-debimeter connection should "8-Converter out" be connected?
Are the MAF converters connections the same between the siemens model you recommend and the ones from VAG brands? I have this one (for VW Passat) for the moment : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33033...27426c37I4ObrN, or what would be the way to know the right connection to the converter?
What is the 5-TPS or VAF in connection for? Is it meant to connect the two devices in serial and compare the two signals?

1.
Accordingly to first scheme your airflowmeter has next pinout:
1- Air temp sensor
2-Signal output
4-Ground
3-reference voltage 5v
Now put one proble of multimeter on engine and with other probe check voltage on all contacts and let us know the result.


if ref voltage trully 5v? then you dont need to connect it to the converter - just set the jumper on the converter to the" motronic" position - in this case the converter will use internal 5V as reference voltage.
2.
Output 8 of the converter must be connected to the wire wich goes to pin 2 of genuine airflowmeter
3.
It will be better to find the pinout of this siemens in a corresponding audi workshop manuals.
4.
You right TPS or VAF input was used in first firmwares to compare both signals from different airflowmeters installed in series, but this method gave a bad results so we decided not to use it.
In the next firmwares we use this input to switching between tables or for selecting different reference values of oxygen sensor for tuning algorythm.
Now you dont need to use it at all.

Цитата:

I have made a draft of the wiring plan which you can find here if needed for verification and comments => https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqn86sofvr...p1%29.pdf?dl=0
This is wrong.
1. You should find the signal ground of genuine airflowmeter and connect ground of the converter and new airflowmeter to that wire, otherwise you will get a lot of noise in signals.
2. During tuning process connect supply of the converter and new airflowmter directly to the battery + via a 5A fuse - this will make tuning process very simple, beacuse the software will not loose connection with the converter in this case.
After all tunings will be done , you will connect reconnect the supply wire to some ignition switch supply.

At this moment i higly recommend you not install new maf, but just install the converter in series with a signal of genuine vaf. You will need to connect ground, supply, oxygen sensor signal, cut signal wite from airflow meter and connect one part to MAF input and other part which goes to ECU to the " converter output"
Put in the converter 1:1 table and start engine.
Look and try how the correction an autotuning works, how it uses oxygen sensor etc. After you understand how all works - next you can place there a new maf.
Also you can make some logs of how your genuine airflometer and oxygen sensor works and post them here - i can check it and confirm is all ok or not.

jcf 11.05.2021 19:33

Hi Pin, thank you very much for your answer and all my apologises for my answer delay, lots of work these days :(

Цитата:

Сообщение от Pin (Сообщение 9858)
Hello Jean-Christophe

Yes - the oxygen sensor is a mandatory thing for tune the mixture properly.
Without it you will get a very bad results and very big fuel consumption.
[…]
You need to connect the oxygen sensor signal to the converter, because inaccurate signal is better then nothing at all.

If your oxygen sensor is a narrow band zirconia type then you can connect it in parallel- it will work fine.

Ok, thanks, I'm waiting the parcel for my new exhaust, I will solder it in a better place this time ;-)

Цитата:

Сообщение от Pin (Сообщение 9858)
1.
Accordingly to first scheme your airflowmeter has next pinout:
1- Air temp sensor
2-Signal output
4-Ground
3-reference voltage 5v
Now put one proble of multimeter on engine and with other probe check voltage on all contacts and let us know the result.


if ref voltage trully 5v? then you dont need to connect it to the converter - just set the jumper on the converter to the" motronic" position - in this case the converter will use internal 5V as reference voltage.

I just went to measure, on the wires, debimeter removed, ignition on, multimeter between wire and engine ground :
1- 5V
2- 1 MegaOhm
3- 5V
4- 0 ohms (ground)

=> what surprises me is why are they 2 x 5 V ? The ECU uses the only signal of pin 2 (aggregate of temperature info + mass of air aspired) to decide the mixture to do ?

Цитата:

Сообщение от Pin (Сообщение 9858)
3.
It will be better to find the pinout of this siemens in a corresponding audi workshop manuals.

Ok, I'm trying to find that. There's no way to check and find the wiring by testing with a multimeter I guess?

I take note of everything you have told me and keep the work in progress !

Thank you very much for your help,
Jean-Christophe

jcf 12.05.2021 14:41

Hi Pin, If I open the VAF to see the internal connexions, won't give it to us the ability to check the connections to use?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2rpwmplx8b..._6350.jpg?dl=0
Thank you very much in advance for your help !
Jean-Christophe

jcf 19.06.2021 21:44

Hi Pin, I followed your advice and connected my VAF through the converter.
Here you will find 2 screenshots of the software connected to the converter (I made the engine run from idle to 5000 rpm. I didn't made any roadtest but have the feeling the engine runs already smoother - the AFR gauge I have on the dashboard shows a more tuned mix, as the original setup seems to be very often lean) :
- conversion table : https://www.dropbox.com/s/33mcx8w8cz...00.20.png?dl=0
- log graph :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/26ssrz0l9y...01.38.png?dl=0

Here you will find the log :https://www.dropbox.com/s/rly0kfx0ln...01_20.log?dl=0

and here the tab :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/po2c56zpl5...01_17.tab?dl=0

Now I'll try to fit the MAF, I bought the Siemens you recommend because I couldn't find the diagrams for the Passat one I already had.

jcf 20.06.2021 18:34

Hi all, tried with the MAF, today, IAT installed but out of the intake, and warm engine so it hasn't be very easy and I had to stop my test before the engine went warm, so very little test, but idling was acceptable.
Logs here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqcud0jukz...06_14.log?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pq4bzso7fo...01_17.tab?dl=0

And for wanagon owners, my incredible temporary setup ;-) :
overview :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/co3y8zq7v6...%2031.jpg?dl=0
detail :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2qr3pqrym...%2039.jpg?dl=0
The top of the pop do it yourself origin compliant connectors :-D :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cirg9o81k5...%2049.jpg?dl=0

The rough diagram of my connections :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/832w5ldyz7...C3%A9.jpg?dl=0

Tomorrow afternoon I will try to do a real MAF setting.

Pin 25.06.2021 14:07

Вложений: 1
Hi JCF,
I checked logs from msg#5 - it is ok in general.
But i see a spikes on oxygen sensor signal.
Let me know from which point did you take supply ground of the converter?
Also please check ignition system totally - high voltage wires with a multimeter and set spark plug's gap to 0.85-0.9mm .

Also check ground wire from chassis to engine/gearbox. And let me know how much wires goes from oxygen sensor - 1, 2, 3 or 4.

Pin 25.06.2021 14:14

Вложений: 3
JFC's setup

Pin 25.06.2021 14:19

In msg#6 Log is very strange( a lot of spikes of the converter output) and i dont see a table, which was used when this log was making.

I think there culd be issues with a ground or with an ignition system.

jcf 28.06.2021 19:17

Hi Pin,
thank you for your answer,
just a quick answer back, since I've made other tests with the MAF 4 days ago but hadn't the time to post here.
I was able to make it work correctly at idle, but impossible to increase the rpm, even with auto setup (I had warmed up the engine with the original setup before).
the log is here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwi9kxmuae...01_16.log?dl=0
the tab is here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i48xnvlw82...01_04.tab?dl=0

I will check (I've changed the setting to the original debimeter since I needed the vanagon this week-end), but I had taken the ground of the ECU on the #4 connector of the wiring.

I've put the IAT sensor in the air filter, but haven't taken the ECT signal.

My lambda sensor is a 4 wire one, I've picked the signal on the same wire I use for my AFM gauge (You told me I could put the 2 together, but maybe I should try without the gauge ?).

I will check the ignition and let you know, but wires and sparks are quite new (all changed last summer, something like 5 000 km ago).

I will check and clean the engine ground also, but think it's ok because when it's faulty, the engine starter fails to start.

jcf 28.06.2021 21:15

I Pin,
- I have checked the ignition wires, they are all between 6,60 kOhms and 10,8 kOhms, depending of the length ;
- The spark plugs gaps were all set to 0,7 and now I increased to 0,9 ;
- Between Pin 4 from the injection wiring and the engine there is a 0,01 ohms resistance ;
- Between Pin 4 from the injection wiring and the engine there is a 0,02 ohms resistance ;
- Between Engine and body there is a 0,02 ohms resistance also (they are two metallic braids between engine and body and gearbox and body).

jcf 02.07.2021 03:00

Цитата:

Сообщение от Pin (Сообщение 9881)
In msg#6 Log is very strange( a lot of spikes of the converter output) and i dont see a table, which was used when this log was making.

I think there culd be issues with a ground or with an ignition system.

Hi Pin, on resetting my injection to the original configuration to go for the MOT, I saw that one of the connections for the lambda sensor heater was loose, and was possibly intermittent, could this explain the phenomenon?

I'm in the process of refurbishing the exhaust, unfortunately some screws broke in the cylinder head (big shit... :p1017:), so I don't know how long I'm going to spend on it to be able to put it back together and continue my injection convertion tests :p0504:

Pin 15.07.2021 13:00

Hi JFC,
Sorry for delay with answer - i was on vacation out of city, and there was a very bad internet.

As I see on last log , the signal of the MAF input does not changes.
If you press accelarator and MAF's signal is not rising, then something connected wrong or new airflowmeter is not working.

Try to remove airflowmeter from intake, start logging and blow air into it with your mouth and check if the red square( regime point) moves ont he dashboard or not.
If it the red square doesent move - then something wrong with a wiring or airflowmeter is bad.

jcf 21.01.2022 22:43

Цитата:

Сообщение от Pin (Сообщение 9887)
Hi JFC,
Sorry for delay with answer - i was on vacation out of city, and there was a very bad internet.

As I see on last log , the signal of the MAF input does not changes.
If you press accelarator and MAF's signal is not rising, then something connected wrong or new airflowmeter is not working.

Try to remove airflowmeter from intake, start logging and blow air into it with your mouth and check if the red square( regime point) moves ont he dashboard or not.
If it the red square doesent move - then something wrong with a wiring or airflowmeter is bad.

Hi Pin,
I haven't had time to work on my setup since my last post, I'll try to get back to it these days and already understand what's going on with my new MAF flowmeter. In the meantime I just wanted to ask you a question, it's to know if the converter could work with a pressure sensor instead of a flowmeter (pressure sensor between the plenum and the outside => when there is depression in the plenum, it means that we are in deceleration, and the more the pressure in the plenum is close to the outside pressure, the more we are close to the full throttle) I've been told by preparers like Mansi that they are much better probes than the MAF ones.
Have a nice week-end,
Jean-Christophe

Pin 30.01.2022 12:08

I JCF,
Nope - with current firmware it is not possible to use manifold absolute pressure sensor? because it need 3d conversion table. Because there could be several point with same pressure but at different rpms as a result the real quantitiy of air consumed byt engine will be different.
On board there all hardware for using MAP, firmware is under development. When it will be ready - i'll post it here. At this moment you can use only maf.
Regards
Anton

jcf 14.02.2022 23:29

Hi Pin, I could'nt find the bluetooth signal from the converter when rewiring it (and no led blinking, but I don't remember when it was supposed to light or blink). I have the converter receiving the 12v on the two first terminals.
What is the typical name of the converter Bluetooth, please ?
Have a nice evening,
Jean-Christophe

Pin 15.02.2022 17:32

Hi JCF
Please check supply voltage and polarity of the converter.
If all ok the led must blink when converter is powered on.
Bluetooth module name HС-06 or jdy-33-spp ( spp33)

If led is not blinking then you need to measure voltage between pins 1 and 2 of the service connector
http://max.pilotpowersupply.com/wp-c.../pinout_en.jpg
there should be 5 volts.
If no - then protective diode dead and it needs to be replaced. In this case make photo of your converter from processor side in good resolution and attach it or send it to email - i'll mark control points for you.

jcf 19.02.2022 00:36

Hi Pin, thank for your answer, and yes, there are 5 volts between pins 1 & 2.
When I checked all connections, I realised that I hadn't wired JP1.2 to ECU reference voltage. Should I ? On message #8 on the scheme I made, we can see I traced this connection with dots because I wasn't sure if it was necessary since the ECU is not motronic but its ref voltage is 5V. What do you think ?
Anyway, I made a photo of the back of the converter, you can find it there : https://www.dropbox.com/s/cb89zhyl8e...0side.jpg?dl=0

Pin 02.03.2022 23:40

Hi jcf
If 5v present on between 1-2 pins , there is no damages and all should work.
What module names do you see during pairing with smartphone or PC?
Did you try to eneter password 1234 during pairing?
You don't need to connect jp1.2 if ref voltage of ECU is 5v. Just set jumper to "Motronic " position, in this case the converter will use internal 5v reference.

jcf 06.03.2022 23:42

Цитата:

Сообщение от Pin (Сообщение 9950)
Hi jcf
If 5v present on between 1-2 pins , there is no damages and all should work.
What module names do you see during pairing with smartphone or PC?
Did you try to eneter password 1234 during pairing?
You don't need to connect jp1.2 if ref voltage of ECU is 5v. Just set jumper to "Motronic " position, in this case the converter will use internal 5v reference.

Hi PIN,
I've checked everything once again. All connections to the ECU and MAF, they are ok, like on the scheme I made on message #8.
I have 12V between 12v supply and ground.
With ignition on, and jumper 1.2 on ref voltage, I have 5V between 1-2 test pins.
But no led is blinking on the converter, and I can't see any Bluetooth signal (I've found on old Bluetooth connexions that mine was HC-06, so I also tried to delete it and make a new one, but none is visible) with my laptop or my phone.

What could I do to troubleshoot further ?
Thank you for your help,
Jean-Christophe

Pin 11.03.2022 14:15

Hi ,Jcf
Next please masure voltages according to ground(gnd) at pins rx, tx, vcc(5V) of the bluetooth module directly on it and let me know the result.

Does bluetooth module soldered directly to the red main board or is there black connector where the module is inserted?

When you connected it to wires at first time - was there a connection via bluetooth?

jcf 10.04.2022 03:03

Hi Pin, I apologize for my long delay in answering, it's been a while since I've had any time to tinker !
I have the following voltages on the Bluetooth module pins :
RX : 5V
TX : 1,26
VCC : 5V
Yes, the Bluetooth module is soldered, and yes, it was working at the beginning and I did my first recordings thru it, and there is still an HC06 Bluetooth registered in my computer connections.

Pin 23.04.2022 17:25

Вложений: 1
Hi JCF,
Sorry for delay with answer.

I think the bluetooth module is dead :(
Typically they dying if something was shorted or it could be killed by static.
Now you need to replace the module.
Cut it with a pliers from the board, next you will need to remove carefully remaining pins with a soldering iron and install 2.54mm pitch socket ( or solder new module directly to the board)
Вложение 2616
I recommend you to install a socket, becuse you can buy fake module or it culd be damaged again, so the socket makes replacing more easy.
There is a lot fake HC-06 modules on aliexpress and other shops and I not recomend to use it. It will be better to by JDY-33 or JDY-31 module.
Or if you can by genuine HC-06 - you can buy and use it.

Please write about result after replacing the module.


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