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Старый 25.04.2021, 16:29   #1
jcf
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По умолчанию VAF to MAF conversion on a VW T3 DJ WasserBoxer Vanagon

Hello Everybody,
I'm planning the installation of my converter on my T3, but have several questions because I'm unsure about my right understanding of the instructions.

First I understand that the lambda is mandatory for the first setup, but mine is badly placed in my opinion. I put it in the silencer (I soldered it by myself, there is no OEM place for a lambda in this exhaust, my lambda only serves for a dashboard gauge, since my ECU (Dijijet) doesn't take this information into account), so its signal is not very accurate I think (it goes regularly from very lean to very rich, but rarely between both, but maybe it's because of a worn VAF...).
  • Is it possible to use the converter without it or do I absolutely need to wire it to the converter despite the relative inaccuracy of the signal?
  • If it needs to be connected to the converter, is it possible to do it in parallel with my dashboard gauge or do I need to connect the converter alone?

Second, I have questions about the wiring.
  • I have +5V between 1-4 on my VAF and +4,6V between 1-2 (see https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l0ecgjhpf...itled.jpg?dl=0 for a caption of VW workshop manual). Should connection 1 of the car harness go to "JP1.2-Ref. Voltage In" Converter connection?
  • To which harness-debimeter connection should "8-Converter out" be connected?
  • Are the MAF converters connections the same between the siemens model you recommend and the ones from VAG brands? I have this one (for VW Passat) for the moment : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33033...27426c37I4ObrN, or what would be the way to know the right connection to the converter?
  • What is the 5-TPS or VAF in connection for? Is it meant to connect the two devices in serial and compare the two signals?

I have made a draft of the wiring plan which you can find here if needed for verification and comments => https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqn86sofvr...p1%29.pdf?dl=0

Thank you very much in advance for your help and have a nice Sunday ;-)
Jean-Christophe
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Старый 28.04.2021, 17:13   #2
Pin
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По умолчанию

Hello Jean-Christophe
Цитата:
First I understand that the lambda is mandatory for the first setup, but mine is badly placed in my opinion. I put it in the silencer (I soldered it by myself, there is no OEM place for a lambda in this exhaust, my lambda only serves for a dashboard gauge, since my ECU (Dijijet) doesn't take this information into account), so its signal is not very accurate I think (it goes regularly from very lean to very rich, but rarely between both, but maybe it's because of a worn VAF...).
Yes - the oxygen sensor is a mandatory thing for tune the mixture properly.
Without it you will get a very bad results and very big fuel consumption.
Here ir video on russian about wrong installation of oxygen sensor
https://youtu.be/O1c_cp30GNo
You can try to enable autotranslation of subtitles - hope that about 70-80% will be clear for you. In a short words if the oxygen sensore installed in a bad place - it will give a very slow response and it will be difficult to tune the mixture properly.

Цитата:
Is it possible to use the converter without it or do I absolutely need to wire it to the converter despite the relative inaccuracy of the signal?
You need to connect the oxygen sensor signal to the converter, because inaccurate signal is better then nothing at all.

Цитата:
If it needs to be connected to the converter, is it possible to do it in parallel with my dashboard gauge or do I need to connect the converter alone?
If your oxygen sensor is a narrow band zirconia type then you can connect it in parallel- it will work fine.


Цитата:
Second, I have questions about the wiring.
I have +5V between 1-4 on my VAF and +4,6V between 1-2 (see https://www.dropbox.com/s/2l0ecgjhpf...itled.jpg?dl=0 for a caption of VW workshop manual). Should connection 1 of the car harness go to "JP1.2-Ref. Voltage In" Converter connection?
To which harness-debimeter connection should "8-Converter out" be connected?
Are the MAF converters connections the same between the siemens model you recommend and the ones from VAG brands? I have this one (for VW Passat) for the moment : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33033...27426c37I4ObrN, or what would be the way to know the right connection to the converter?
What is the 5-TPS or VAF in connection for? Is it meant to connect the two devices in serial and compare the two signals?
1.
Accordingly to first scheme your airflowmeter has next pinout:
1- Air temp sensor
2-Signal output
4-Ground
3-reference voltage 5v
Now put one proble of multimeter on engine and with other probe check voltage on all contacts and let us know the result.


if ref voltage trully 5v? then you dont need to connect it to the converter - just set the jumper on the converter to the" motronic" position - in this case the converter will use internal 5V as reference voltage.
2.
Output 8 of the converter must be connected to the wire wich goes to pin 2 of genuine airflowmeter
3.
It will be better to find the pinout of this siemens in a corresponding audi workshop manuals.
4.
You right TPS or VAF input was used in first firmwares to compare both signals from different airflowmeters installed in series, but this method gave a bad results so we decided not to use it.
In the next firmwares we use this input to switching between tables or for selecting different reference values of oxygen sensor for tuning algorythm.
Now you dont need to use it at all.

Цитата:
I have made a draft of the wiring plan which you can find here if needed for verification and comments => https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqn86sofvr...p1%29.pdf?dl=0
This is wrong.
1. You should find the signal ground of genuine airflowmeter and connect ground of the converter and new airflowmeter to that wire, otherwise you will get a lot of noise in signals.
2. During tuning process connect supply of the converter and new airflowmter directly to the battery + via a 5A fuse - this will make tuning process very simple, beacuse the software will not loose connection with the converter in this case.
After all tunings will be done , you will connect reconnect the supply wire to some ignition switch supply.

At this moment i higly recommend you not install new maf, but just install the converter in series with a signal of genuine vaf. You will need to connect ground, supply, oxygen sensor signal, cut signal wite from airflow meter and connect one part to MAF input and other part which goes to ECU to the " converter output"
Put in the converter 1:1 table and start engine.
Look and try how the correction an autotuning works, how it uses oxygen sensor etc. After you understand how all works - next you can place there a new maf.
Also you can make some logs of how your genuine airflometer and oxygen sensor works and post them here - i can check it and confirm is all ok or not.

Последний раз редактировалось Pin; 28.04.2021 в 17:28.
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Старый 11.05.2021, 19:33   #3
jcf
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Hi Pin, thank you very much for your answer and all my apologises for my answer delay, lots of work these days

Цитата:
Сообщение от Pin Посмотреть сообщение
Hello Jean-Christophe

Yes - the oxygen sensor is a mandatory thing for tune the mixture properly.
Without it you will get a very bad results and very big fuel consumption.
[…]
You need to connect the oxygen sensor signal to the converter, because inaccurate signal is better then nothing at all.

If your oxygen sensor is a narrow band zirconia type then you can connect it in parallel- it will work fine.
Ok, thanks, I'm waiting the parcel for my new exhaust, I will solder it in a better place this time ;-)

Цитата:
Сообщение от Pin Посмотреть сообщение
1.
Accordingly to first scheme your airflowmeter has next pinout:
1- Air temp sensor
2-Signal output
4-Ground
3-reference voltage 5v
Now put one proble of multimeter on engine and with other probe check voltage on all contacts and let us know the result.


if ref voltage trully 5v? then you dont need to connect it to the converter - just set the jumper on the converter to the" motronic" position - in this case the converter will use internal 5V as reference voltage.
I just went to measure, on the wires, debimeter removed, ignition on, multimeter between wire and engine ground :
1- 5V
2- 1 MegaOhm
3- 5V
4- 0 ohms (ground)

=> what surprises me is why are they 2 x 5 V ? The ECU uses the only signal of pin 2 (aggregate of temperature info + mass of air aspired) to decide the mixture to do ?

Цитата:
Сообщение от Pin Посмотреть сообщение
3.
It will be better to find the pinout of this siemens in a corresponding audi workshop manuals.
Ok, I'm trying to find that. There's no way to check and find the wiring by testing with a multimeter I guess?

I take note of everything you have told me and keep the work in progress !

Thank you very much for your help,
Jean-Christophe
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Старый 12.05.2021, 14:41   #4
jcf
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Hi Pin, If I open the VAF to see the internal connexions, won't give it to us the ability to check the connections to use?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2rpwmplx8b..._6350.jpg?dl=0
Thank you very much in advance for your help !
Jean-Christophe
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Старый 19.06.2021, 21:44   #5
jcf
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Hi Pin, I followed your advice and connected my VAF through the converter.
Here you will find 2 screenshots of the software connected to the converter (I made the engine run from idle to 5000 rpm. I didn't made any roadtest but have the feeling the engine runs already smoother - the AFR gauge I have on the dashboard shows a more tuned mix, as the original setup seems to be very often lean) :
- conversion table : https://www.dropbox.com/s/33mcx8w8cz...00.20.png?dl=0
- log graph :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/26ssrz0l9y...01.38.png?dl=0

Here you will find the log :https://www.dropbox.com/s/rly0kfx0ln...01_20.log?dl=0

and here the tab :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/po2c56zpl5...01_17.tab?dl=0

Now I'll try to fit the MAF, I bought the Siemens you recommend because I couldn't find the diagrams for the Passat one I already had.
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Старый 20.06.2021, 18:34   #6
jcf
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Hi all, tried with the MAF, today, IAT installed but out of the intake, and warm engine so it hasn't be very easy and I had to stop my test before the engine went warm, so very little test, but idling was acceptable.
Logs here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqcud0jukz...06_14.log?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pq4bzso7fo...01_17.tab?dl=0

And for wanagon owners, my incredible temporary setup ;-) :
overview :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/co3y8zq7v6...%2031.jpg?dl=0
detail :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2qr3pqrym...%2039.jpg?dl=0
The top of the pop do it yourself origin compliant connectors :-D :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cirg9o81k5...%2049.jpg?dl=0

The rough diagram of my connections :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/832w5ldyz7...C3%A9.jpg?dl=0

Tomorrow afternoon I will try to do a real MAF setting.
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Старый 25.06.2021, 14:07   #7
Pin
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Hi JCF,
I checked logs from msg#5 - it is ok in general.
But i see a spikes on oxygen sensor signal.
Let me know from which point did you take supply ground of the converter?
Also please check ignition system totally - high voltage wires with a multimeter and set spark plug's gap to 0.85-0.9mm .

Also check ground wire from chassis to engine/gearbox. And let me know how much wires goes from oxygen sensor - 1, 2, 3 or 4.
Миниатюры
Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
Название: Spikes.jpg
Просмотров: 10
Размер:	190.8 Кб
ID:	2612  
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Старый 25.06.2021, 14:14   #8
Pin
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JFC's setup
Миниатюры
Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
Название: VAF_to_MAF_injection_T3_Hack_—_Envoyé_sur_le_forum_corrigé (1).jpg
Просмотров: 26
Размер:	196.3 Кб
ID:	2613   Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
Название: Photo 20-06-2021 14 20 39.jpg
Просмотров: 17
Размер:	193.5 Кб
ID:	2614   Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
Название: Photo 20-06-2021 14 20 49.jpg
Просмотров: 19
Размер:	182.5 Кб
ID:	2615  
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Старый 25.06.2021, 14:19   #9
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In msg#6 Log is very strange( a lot of spikes of the converter output) and i dont see a table, which was used when this log was making.

I think there culd be issues with a ground or with an ignition system.
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Старый 28.06.2021, 19:17   #10
jcf
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Hi Pin,
thank you for your answer,
just a quick answer back, since I've made other tests with the MAF 4 days ago but hadn't the time to post here.
I was able to make it work correctly at idle, but impossible to increase the rpm, even with auto setup (I had warmed up the engine with the original setup before).
the log is here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwi9kxmuae...01_16.log?dl=0
the tab is here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i48xnvlw82...01_04.tab?dl=0

I will check (I've changed the setting to the original debimeter since I needed the vanagon this week-end), but I had taken the ground of the ECU on the #4 connector of the wiring.

I've put the IAT sensor in the air filter, but haven't taken the ECT signal.

My lambda sensor is a 4 wire one, I've picked the signal on the same wire I use for my AFM gauge (You told me I could put the 2 together, but maybe I should try without the gauge ?).

I will check the ignition and let you know, but wires and sparks are quite new (all changed last summer, something like 5 000 km ago).

I will check and clean the engine ground also, but think it's ok because when it's faulty, the engine starter fails to start.
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